This past Friday I had a chance to attend the Hope scrimmage with St. Clair Community College from Port Huron. St. Clair is known as the Skippers.
Yeah, that was my first thought.
This was Hope's second and final scrimmage of the year, the first being the week before at Bethel College. That didn't go well. If you like message boards about teams you don't care about you can read what little was written about it here: Go Bethel! Not much to go on, but indeed also confirmed from people actually there.....ball handling was an issue. Bethel won its first official game 121-63 over Holy Cross College, lost its second to Rio Grande 71-72 a couple days after the Hope scrimmage. Bethel was at least a week ahead in the practice time department, probably 2 or 3 and about 2 days away from starting their season. Not exactly an even fight.
The object of a scrimmage is of course to get some game action for your team and take a look at your personnel running your offense and defense against someone other than yourselves. Winning is not important, or even scoring, but I kept score and broke it down into 5 minute segments which roughly matched the substitutions. I didn't pay much attention to SCCC's lineup or rotations but they seemed to play the same 8-10 guys the majority of the time.
This particular scrimmage was two 20 minute halves with as normal of a game clock as possible, shot clock, 3 referees. The only thing abnormal was the teams shot only one FT on foul shots to save some time. The final session was 10 minutes with a running clock, Matt Neil chose to play mostly first year players during that time.
A couple personnel notes:
Josh Holwerda 6-8 Sr. did not play much, still recovering from finger injury
Chris Ray 6-5 Sr. did not play much, still recovering from foot surgery
Grant Neil 6-3 Jr. did not play, just joined the team with the end of soccer season
Coltan Overway was probably not 100% recovering from illness
A Not So Brief Rundown of the Scrimmage
Hope started:Coltan Overway 6-0 Sr.
Billy Seiler 6-2 Sr.
Stephen Whittenbach 6-4 So.
Nate Snuggerud 6-5 Sr.
Nate VanArendonk 6-10 Jr.
Whittenbach didn't play a lot of minutes last year and is new to the overall rotations, if you were asked to look on the floor to pick the new guy you really might have had a hard time picking one. Stephen fit in quite well and looked very comfortable out there. I would say I'm very comfortable with this lineup if it is the starting line-up Hope chooses to go with.
These five played almost all of the first 5 minutes together, it wasn't a rout but it was a we are comfortably much better than St. Clair period. Hope 'won' it 18-7, St. Clair couldn't guard Snuggerud and couldn't handle Hope's height advantage for the most part. The finishing around the basket wasn't the greatest. Naturally, Nate VanArendonk picked up his first foul 1 minute 30 seconds into the proceedings, but no worries he did not pick up another one that I recall.
Substitutions in order of appearance:
Matt Parisi 5-11 So. for Whittenbach
Ben Gardner 5-11 Fr. for Overway
Brock Benson 6-8 Fr. for Van Arendonk
Caleb Byers 6-5 Jr. for Snuggerud
Corey McMahon 6-1 So. for Seiler
None of these guys were on Hope's roster a year ago. These 5 came on the floor over a 1 minute or so period and played the majority of the next 5 minutes together which was, delicately put, ugly. Positioning on the floor was exactly man-for-man substitutions. Hope actually 'lost' this stretch 4-6, mostly because they had trouble making shots.
The next 5 minutes the starting 5 returned with a brief mixing of players. This was a rout, Hope 'won' it 16-1 mostly due to stronger defensive play and some great transition opportunities.
The final 5 was decidedly Hope's at 12-4. Fr. Jordan Denham, Fr. Alex Eidson and Sr. Chase Demaagd made their first appearances during this stretch. There really was no difference in play with the first time the non-starters played, they just made a few more shots.
After a brief break, the second half played much the same way as the first in terms of 'segments' with the exception the starting 5 only played the first 5 minutes, then it was different combinations of the other guys with Sr. Chris Ray and Sr. Josh Holwerda making short appearances.
The first 5 minutes of the 2nd half were probably not very pleasing to Matt Neil, a segment Hope struggled to score. He sent the starting 5 back on the floor for the final 5 minutes which they 'won' 14-3. The energy was up and the fast break points happened quick. Hope played a little zone defense for the first time, everything up to that point had been man-to-man from both teams.
The 10 minute running clock segment consisted of Hope using 3 different lineups, they were:
Group 1
Gardner
McMahon
Seiler
Benson
Van Arendonk
Group 2
Gardner
McMahon
Eidson
Ray
Benson
Group 3
Gardner
Denham
Parisi
DeMaagd
Byers
By this point everyone was pretty tired, including me so my recollection of the events isn't very clear though I was intrigued by the prospects of each group, particularly the first group. The scoring for each group went 5-4, 4-4 and 8-4 before they shut things down for the day. A pretty positive day for Hope I'd say or at least one where they felt a whole lot better than the week before.
Scoring broken down roughly by 5 minute intervals
18-7
4-6
16-1
12-4
50-18
5-4
14-7
14-10
14-3
47-24
Hope 97 St. Clair 42 Woo!
Individual Scoring
Snuggerud 16 -man among boys really
Seiler 14 -tough baskets in close, couple 3's
Whittenbach 9 - fits
VanArendonk 8 -struggled to finish a little
Overway 6 -didn't quite look 100%
McMahon 15 -really good day shooting the ball, probably 4-5 from 3
Byers 8 -good looking player, athletic, not an easy match-up at this level
Eidson 6
Gardner 6 -probably going to shoot a lot of FT's in his Hope career
Denham 3
DeMaagd 3 -marriage hasn't killed his effort and will.....yet
Parisi 2 -scored 8 in the final 10 minute running clock segment
Holwerda 2
Benson 1 -showed a couple nice moves, just didn't finish, took 3 charges on defense
This adds up to 99 -it was my first scrimmage
Depth Charts and Stuff
The following was written over the course of 2 or 3 days, since its finishing Steve Whittenbach went down with a broken foot or ankle. Obviously he'll be out for an extended time, at least January I imagine. This is a blow because from all accounts and observations Steve had really worked himself into a good position to be a starter and a big contributor to this team. What it does to the depth chart and starting line-up is not quite clear. Hope probably just plugs McMahon or Parisi into the starting slot but I think they might give a bigger lineup a serious look. Alex Eidson probably takes the final varsity slot. Hope just lost one of its key top 6 or 7 players for an extended time which is never good.
Point Guard:
Coltan Overway 6-0 Sr.
Ben Gardner 6-0 Fr.
Jordan Denham 6-0 Fr.
Obviously Coltan's the guy here and will probably see 30 minutes per game, maybe even 35 if the two kids struggle a little bit. I think Hope would prefer if they could give him some frequent rests for the long haul. Given the ball handling troubles of the first scrimmage I wouldn't be surprised if both Gardner and Denham were instructed to watch their ball-handling in this game. Neither made much of an offensive impression, mostly because between them there was probably only a couple jumpers taken and a couple layups. Gardner looked most comfortable in traffic and getting to the lane, Denham seemed a little more passive on this day. I've watched a little video of both and know they can shoot, it just wasn't on display in this setting. You can tell both have been well coached to this point in their basketball lives, probably not the best opponent to make defensive judgements but it didn't worry me.
I'm sure they will each get a chance to solidify themselves as the #2 by league play, but honestly there doesn't appear to be much separation and it really could just come down to who plays with the most confidence. Actual minutes played between now and January will vary based on opponent and how well Coltan keeps himself on the floor.
Two-guard, shooting guard, wandering base-line hermits:
Billy Seiler 6-2 Sr.
Steve Whittenbach 6-4 So.
Matt Parisi 5-11 So.
Corey McMahon 6-1 So.
Alex Eidson 6-2 Fr.
Seiler and Whittenbach are clearly the starters to me. Whittenbach looked good out there, mobile, confident and played like a veteran to these eyes. At 6-4 he has small forward height with a little guard mobility. Billy Seiler has a 24 hour pass to the Hope weight room and uses it. He looks like an OAC guard these days, plays physical like one. Both of these two will be relied upon for some 3 point shooting and Seiler will probably get the tough defensive assignment every night.
It looked to me like Hope ran 3 guard sets almost exclusively with the 2nd and 3rd guards being pretty much interchangeable. So all of these guys will probably play both spots.
McMahon and Parisi are both good 3 point shooters, on this day McMahon had the better day. But I bet if you watched them for a week a different guy would be better each day. They are very close. McMahon has a very quick release, Parisi probably has a little better range. I'm not sure either will supplant the other and probably both will see equal playing time. Alex Eidson is probably going to be a varsity/JV guy and will be up and down as the schedule dictates. He might have just been up with the varsity with Neil playing soccer but I could see him fitting on this roster if there was space. I didn't get enough of a read defensively to know where any of these 3 stand but there were no obvious defensive breakdowns that I saw.
Small Forward or the three, when they don't go w/3 guards
Chris Ray 6-6 Sr.
Grant Neil 6-3 Jr.
Chase DeMaagd 6-3 Sr.
Chase was the only one who really played much in the scrimmage. He will probably still get spotty minutes as the situations and circumstances dictate. Chris Ray was an important 10-15 minutes guy before he broke his foot at the end of the year. His length and mid-range jumper was quite valuable, I'd really like to see him get back to 100%. All 3 can probably play the 4 if Hope wished to go small.
Power Forward or the four
Nate Snuggerud 6-5 Sr.
Caleb Byers 6-5 Jr.
There is five pounds difference between these two, Caleb being a slightly more athletic build and athletic player. Caleb comes over from Spring Arbor University where he was a pretty solid player. I think as the season goes on Hope fans may come to love his presence on this team.
What a nice option to give Snuggerud a little rest. Last year Hope lost 20 to 30 lbs in bulk when Nate went out of the game, that won't happen much this year. Honestly I can see moments when Matt Neil would be tempted to play both on opposite blocks with or without a center and him laughing maniacally in approval. This is probably the one spot on the roster Hope might be a touch thin, some creativity might be in order if fouls become a problem.
For the most part though, I'd expect man for man substitutions. I don't think it will take long for Caleb to get settled into this team.
Center
Nate Van Arendonk 6-10, Jr.
Josh Holwerda 6-8, Sr.
Brock Benson 6-8, Fr.
Nate Van Arendonk is the firm starter and he needs to stay on the floor as much as possible. His height and bulk is just immense at this level. With the other Nate probably getting a little more defensive attention this Nate is going to get a few more offensive opportunities I would imagine.
Behind Nate is Josh Holwerda who really played well at the end of last season, if that can carry over to this season Hope's in business in the post. Brock will get a chance to play and could provide valuable cover for Nate's foul trouble, which will happen at some point. Brock has a nice frame already, he'll be a fun one to watch as he gets more comfortable with this level. He is certainly going to play for this team. In the scrimmage he took 3 nice charges, made 2 or 3 good post moves but just didn't finish the play and also seemed to have a good eye for rebounding. The best thing for Brock is he can kind of grow slowly into the position as Hope won't be forcing him to "be the man" like he might have had to at other D3 programs. Look for moments when he slides down to the four when Hope wants to go 'big'.
The prospect of being able to play 40 minutes with a capable 6-8 or bigger center on the floor at all times is very exciting. Its not often a D3 team can go 6-10, 6-8 at center and then get deeper in the off-season but Hope managed this. Certainly though there will be times when Hope will want to go small for defensive purposes.
What to take away from all of this
Well for one thing the depth chart looks a whole lot better to me now that I've seen everyone in person. Coach Neil has legitimately got 15 guys he could play, so options abound. From those they'll be able to pair things down to a more manageable 10, 11 or so come conference play. Here in early November its just really difficult to see or know how that will work out. It seems kind of weird to say but with so many players being so equal at the guard spots and Hope adding one player at each of the post positions, Hope could actually end up being a little deeper than last years team. Exciting right?
Really when you look at it, Hope has to feel pretty good about its starting five and then its a matter of building some depth around that. The key will be getting all of those guys the right minutes and experience. That will take time.
My biggest concern with this team is 3-point shooting, while the scrimmage helped allay those fears a little, I'm sure there will be times of inconsistency as there always is with young players. But wow, being able to stretch a defense just a little with Hope's front line could be deadly.
Defensively there just isn't anything to take away from this game, St. Clair is a community college, its just not great competition for any D3 squad or at least shouldn't be. St. Clair's offense just looked kind of pointless to me, either they were massively intimidated by Hope, just didn't have much of a clue what they were doing or were just totally over-matched. A vote for all 3 maybe. We won't know much about the younger players defensively until probably through the Hall of Fame Classic or Wheaton/Carthage games.
The Grain of Salt
Very easy to let things get to rose colored when you club a team by 50, but I came away pretty pleased with what I saw. There is still a ton of work to do and I'm quite sure this team will look completely different 2 months from now and that is part of the excitement of a new season.
On Allen Iverson's list of game importance, a scrimmage ranks just above practice. Which Allen is not fond of discussing.
1. Games I score a lot of points
2. Games I play in
3. Games I don't play in
4. Exhibition Games
5. Scrimmage
6. Practice
I still love this clip
So yeah, grains of salt
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